“Would you love to have more than one kid, or would you like to have a kid that has the same experience as you, the only child, and then you get to nurture and protect?”

That was a question posed to Charli XCX by Jason Bateman on Monday’s episode of SmartLess, his podcast with Sean Hayes and Will Arnett. In response, Charli—who is currently busy promoting both her new mockumentary, The Moment, and her soundtrack album for Emerald Fennell’s Wuthering Heights—demurred.

“I don’t really want to have kids,” she said, going on to explain that though her feelings “could change,” becoming a parent just isn’t on her mind right now. “I love the fantasy of having a child, like naming it—it sounds so fun—but I’m like, that is exactly a sign to me as to why I should not have one, the fact that [naming it] feels like the coolest part about it.”

The conversation could have moved along from there—but instead, Bateman pressed on. Telling Charli that his own wife didn’t always want to have kids, he suggested that she “might find somebody” who would change her mind.

“Well, I am married,” came Charli’s reply. Woof!

Do I think that Bateman actually cares, one way or another, whether or not Charli ends up having kids? No, not really; I think podcast patter simply brings out the worst in annoying men. But that’s precisely what’s so frustrating about the exchange: family-making decisions that are, for many women, incredibly loaded and personal can so easily become fodder for men who aren’t shy about dispensing unasked-for advice whenever it enters their minds.

Of course, if Bateman had more than a passing familiarity with Charli’s work, he’d likely know that she brilliantly addressed the topic of getting older and wondering about starting a family on her culture-shifting 2024 album Brat. The song “I Think About It All the Time”—which describes the unique-feeling yet wildly common experience of seeing your friends step into new roles as parents, and beginning to question your own life decisions (“I went to my friend’s place, and I met their baby for the first time… She’s a radiant mother, and he’s a beautiful father… and now they both know these things that I don’t…”)—gives voice to the uncertainty and desire and fear surrounding the question of whether or not to start a family better than any podcast bro ever could.

We’ve been conditioned, over the decades, to think of reproductive autonomy only as it relates to abortion. But the truth is, conversations like the one between Charli and Bateman on SmartLess illuminate just how few decisions a woman can make about her own life and body without some man looking askance at her. At 32, I don’t totally know myself if I want kids, or whether I’ll want them in the future, or how I’ll set up my life to someday accommodate them. But I definitely know I don’t need a straight, cis white man’s condescending opinion on the topic. Charli and I will figure it out on our own terms, thank you very much!